I just discovered another awesome blog. It’s satirically titled The Online Discernmentalist Mafia. It didn’t take long before ODMAFIA made a regular reader out of me. Great stuff. Just remember, it is satire. It is good satire. In fact, the author(s) have a disclaimer in the sidebar in clear view.
Before you get all bent out of shape, please realize this is a satire site spoofing the so-called “discernment ministries” who deem themselves more worthy of Grace than the rest of us. So read and have fun! BTW, we are not against “good” discernment ministries that do actual real research and extend grace to others, only the bad ones.
Do check it out! Satire is good for the soul. I’m subscribing and I’m going to blogroll the site with a quickness.
Related posts:
Urban Echo
Emerging Women
(Ir)religiosity
The Blind Begger
Brian McLaren
OK, so I just wrote in another thread that I was not going to write as much… I guess that starts after this post.
So… I don’t get it. What is “discernmentalism”? What are they satirizing? Maybe I am just dense, and I won’t pretend that satire has ever really been my thing. So could I get some background, or at least a definition?
Who are they supposed to represent?
Dave – From what I gather they are satirically expressing their views of those “discerning folk” who criticize the Emerging Church (progressive faith in general?).
PS: Dave you can write as much and as often as you’d like here. You are welcome to express your views and thoughts. We may not agree, but we can talk about respectfully with one another, for sure. :)
I just wasn’t sure if there was a specific movement or journal or blog or whatever that they were poking at.
Just as an aside, I find it a little amusing that the Emerging Motivational Posters were “sad” and “thin caricature” while this particular site is “awesome”, “great stuff”, and “good satire”.
Seems to me that both are intended for “in movement” consumption, and that both caricature the other viewpoints available in such a ways as to marginalize actual discussion of the topics.
But I did get a good laugh – I can see some of my own buddies in this a little (though obviously taken to extreme places).
Dave – Not sure why you would find that amusing. We all have our tribes; we all camp somewhere. I consider the emerging church my tribe and I find much of the neo-reformed thing to be allergen. I think that’s to be expected, don’t you? You’ll find the same thing on neo-reformed sites. You’ll find them calling the emerging church “sad” and celebrating spiritual machismo. It’s to be expected, I think.
I know that it is common. What I found “amusing” was the dichotomy between word and deed. A profession of the desire for a legitimate “conversation”, and critique of the group bashing from the motivational posters site, and then the support of a site that seems to make its point the caricature of the other party in the conversation – these things are incompatible with each other.
Amusing may have been the wrong word – I chose it because it has less baggage associated with it than other words that could be used. When I hear people in my own sect criticizing other sects, while knocking those who criticize us, I generally call it hypocrisy. I know that we all have groups (I prefer to call them cliques since that seems to really be what they typically become) with which we associate. I have mine, and frankly am not sure how it would be categorized. Not as emergent, I can’t see that tag being used – though I see certain elements of it within my own thought and that of my fellows. What I do know is that I can learn from Emerging folk, and I believe that they can learn from Evangelicals, and we can all learn something from Catholics, Pentecostals, Charismatics, Methodists… and so the list goes on.
A site like the one linked above does little to promote such learning, and from everything I know of pedagogy, it would hinder it. Thus, I find it surprising that you’d promote it. You seem to be really into conversation, education, communication, and authenticity. I see little in that blog that promotes any of the above.
To reiterate, just for clarity since it seemed to get lost above, it’s not just this “discernmentalist” blog that I am taking a whack at. It is ALL the blogs or sites or books or speakers or whatevers that spend their time tearing down without building. I say leave it if all it does is mock – whoever it mocks.
Dave – Hmmmm … You know what? I’m actually hearing you on this one. You make a valid and nearly unarguable point. You are so right.
Building, not tearing down is my desire.
This lesson is one I will be consciously spending some time with …
Thank you for your perspective. :)
Great discussion guys. I am the owner of ODMafia so here is my take on all of this. The ODMafia is not just an “emerging” site… I see it as more of a backwards correcting sites. We make fun of the “hate” that so many so-called “Discernment” sites that have no actually discernment… or very little. They focus not on Grace though they mouth it… and focus on the unessentials of the faith as if they were essentials.
There has been many harmed and hurt by these who claim “discernment” as they use this worlds tools, (lies, slander etc..) to attack their brothers and sister’s in Christ… Often their theology is so far off and wrong, it is just insane to allow them to say they have discernment.
Now, what happened to me was that I was attacked mercilessly for about 2 years by these people… lies, slander and name calling really began to take a toll on me. I began to become angry and bitter over all of it until one day I wrote (jokingly) as one of them and people all laughed. I wrote more and more people laughed… then the blog was developed.
I have received many emails that tell me thanks for bringing humor to the madness and that they also have been “healed” of anger as I was through humor.
The purpose is not just to tear down… yet sometimes we need to stand up against those pharisees of the day as Jesus did and point out their folly… We at the ODMafia may not hit it right all the time but we try.
Now, most the time… at least with my posts… I will hold the standard the ODM’s set on others to them as a mirror… and funny thing is I actually have corrected a few as they do read my blog… Most often they say my site is a “hate” site… and sadly it is of sorts as it reflects their own hate… I pray daily for those we write about and pray they can see their own hate is what is really there.
We do also make fun of some of the big name people… and some, like John Armstrong have pointed us out on their blogs, and thanked us for making fun of them… Actually we make fun of the criticism about them that has been set out by ODM’s.
All we ask is that you pray for us and also for the ODM’s at ODMafia we talk about. If some did real research, used honesty, grace and learned to love others instead of spreading hate, I would say we all will win in the end.
BTW Since the ODMafia started I can note at least one who we hit hard has had a change of heart on some thing… I believe he began to see the double standard he set on others… and did not keep himself. Prayer and correction… it is for everyone… even the ODMafia so we truly appreciate your discussion here.
be blessed!
iggy aka I. Todyaso
Great thoughts too, Iggy. Honestly, I’m torn. On one hand, I do see what Dave is getting at in his comments; on the other hand I think satire has a legitimate place in expression. Hmmm …
At any rate, I read ODMafia nearly everyday now. And I really enjoy it. I think it’s a fine way to turn something meant to tear down into something humorous.
Hello and greetings to all here discussing ODMafia. I write under the name Truthslayer.
I was first exposed to the Online Discernment Ministries years ago, but grew more and more displeased with how they treated Christians (often over puffed up disagreements)..even minor non-essential issues. Unfortunately, I identify with the ‘Truthslayer” character – he is a composite of a bit of me (from my 20s), and some of the discernment ministries that are quite zealous to ‘expose’ false teaching – the irony is that their methodology, apologetic style and attitude testify to the fact that some should re-think their approach.
I find myself irked though by the many pronouncements made, often untrue, and in very uncharitable terms against the spectrum of Christianity….and therefore I am pleased to be a writer of the ODMafia.
I find by emulating, exagerating, satirizing and ‘humourizing’ some of the ODMs helps to hold a mirror up to ourselves and these sites – hoping that some will see truth peaking thru the humour. I think that humour does have a way of lowering defences and sometimes painting truth in a non-offensive way (of course I’m sure some beg to differ)
Moreover, we often lampoon some great ministries (by portraying OURSELVES as brash apologists) in hopes that our readers will actually read some very edifying and thought provoking Christian sites – both apologetic/philosophy/preaching sites (ie Gregory Boyd, NT Wright, John Stott etc )
Finally, I’m not an emergent (EC), but I certainly can see both GOOD and BAD points about this movement. I do think though that they (and many others) are NOT getting a fair shake and therefore I choose to lampoon groups that take their issues with EC (and other ministries) too far.
thanks again for the opportunity to pen this…and come out of character (-:
Peace brothers and sisters!
Truthslayer!
I am officially a ODMafia fan!
There are a lot of good things in your above explanation. Thanks.
Dave – To be fair, and to understand a bit of context, perhaps you should visit Slice of Laodicea or apprising.
These are the sort of sites and expressions ODMafia addresses not with anger or malice, but with satirical humor that actually focuses on the positive things that those site authors seek to tear down.
The more I think about, the more I appreciate the effort by the ODMafia folk. It is satire, after all.
Shawn et al – OK… read the other sites. So given context, I am now even more inclined to hold ODMafia in disregard. Allow me to explain, and maybe I’ll make a little more sense. Also, I realize that this is unlikely to actually make anyone do anything differently, but hey – it’s an interesting conversation.
Re: “anger and malice… positive things” – maybe you see none of this anger in the ODMafia site’s text, but I think that may be an issue of perspective. When one agrees with a position, one is less likely to take offense at what is said. When one disagrees, one is more likely to take offense. Like you wrote elsewhere, objectivity is generally a myth.
So – those who agree laugh, those who disagree don’t. Has anything productive happened? Those who disagree are just miffed at the perceived heavy-handed approach and disregard for any valid points that they may be making. I mean, really – I can’t be the only one who looks at this and says “Dude – over the top”.
So we run with our respective packs, we play our games with our friends, and disagreements that have substance become a mockery. Discussions end as we descend into banter in the guise of satire, and in the end we can pat ourselves on the back for being so intellectual that we appreciate satire. It takes very little to bash and mock – it takes far more to actually dissect and examine, and then synthesize and rebut where appropriate.
Please understand, I am not trying to be a spoil-sport or anything. But the fact that we are trying to elevate the mockery of some likely well-intentioned though in many cases misguided BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST to some kind of art form leaves me horrified (forgive the caps, I can’t figure out how to make this bold or italics). I emphasize “brothers and sisters in Christ” because that is what these “discerners” are, even if they are very wrong.
I mean, heck – I could start up a site where I critiqued the EC or the liberal church or whatever we want to call it through mockery/satire… but instead I am having a conversation with those with whom I differ on some points (though not all). Not to pat myself on the back or anything…
Lastly, not to contradict Truthslayer… but I don’t think that humor as seen at ODMafia lowers anyone’s defenses very much. Or perhaps I should say at least not mine. What it seems to do is reduce a really important point that you are making to the level of Jay Leno or Jerry Seinfeld – not a good place to be if one is trying for intelligent discourse. It lowers the tone of the conversation to similar levels as we see in the political world – not good in my mind. Why descend to a level akin to the target of your scorn?
So yes, pray for those with whom you disagree, that God would be able to work His will in their lives. But need we mock them at the same time? Does this sound like godly clean speech? Does this fall into the “whatever is…” list Paul gave us? Or into the outline of Psalm 1:1? Or Proverbs 14:8? Or the other host of Scripture that teaches us to control our tongues (and I would imagine, by extension our fingers)?
Anyway, I will restate my thesis in stark (almost comoic I might add) terms, in case it gets lost in my ramblings:
ODMafia is mocking. Mocking hinders conversation. That which hinders conversation is unconstructive. Unconstructive is a practical synonym for destructive. Destructive is bad. We should not engage in or celebrate that which is bad, even if we find it humorous.
Dave – I completely understand your point of view, and respect it. But what would you do to alternatively address people who won;t even listen to you because they assume you are of the devil or some nonsense? Those sites cited are sites where much criticism comes from and very little opportunity for honest and healthy conversation is invited. Seriously.
Pray, and not mock. Create a site, if you must, that systematically answers the points brought up by the negative sites. Or just let those who must rail against you rail at the wind.
Why must these “discerners” be engaged at all? You make it out like you MUST respond somehow… and I don’t see that you must. I think you can simply go about being Christians in your expression of the faith, praying for them that God’s will be done, and go about your life.
I know that it is trite, but hey – two wrongs don’t make a right.
Or to put it another way, and more cogently perhaps…
I have noted Scriptures above that point out that this type of mocking tone is inappropriate. To this I could add another few dozen in all likelihood, but you get the point. So are you willing to abandon the Word because you think something is funny? Are you willing to behave badly because someone else is?
I look at those discerning sites, that literally despise and damn everyone who doesn’t think the same way, and I look at ODMafia, and I see two different approaches to a very serious issue. I appreciate the later and I am terribly frustrated by the former. I think satire and humor is a healthy way to address the frustration, Dave.
I think that the idea of total/blind conformity to a set of religious presuppositions and assumptions is dangerous. It should be addressed/engaged. Satire/humor is a healthy and non-destructive way to do so, IMHO.
On this one we will have to have divergent views. I don’t think that ODMafia is the worst thing I have ever seen; certainly it is not. But I still don’t think it does anything positive.
I too get frustrated by the “discernmentalist” types that are referenced here – though I think that you may be only seeing the damning and the despising, and might be missing some of the good intentions and the good points. This is easy to do for us all – I do a lot of the same I often think when I talk to people from the EC; this is part of why I am trying to read up over here and engage here and elsewhere… maybe get a little more insight and pick up some more truth that I have missed in my little clique.
I suppose it would be nice if we could all just get along, but since that doesn’t seem to be happening anytime soon…