What in the hell – and yes, that’s a fitting prepositional object – is this?!? E.I.E.O! Oey oey oey! Actually, I do believe the above was an event at a church near us that was once attended by two very close friends and leaders (they are a couple) in our own church plant. Thankfully, they are much, much wiser than this!
Related posts:
I’ve never heard of this guy before. Is he drunk?
I’ve never seen anything like this in my life.
Hey, guys. Apparently, this guy is a sought after conference speaker for charismatic groups. The above video is a shot of him at a very real church who gathered to hear him “speak.” If you search You Tube, you’ll find a lot more clips of him. He’s for real.
In fact, the church he is speaking at is New Life Center in Harrisburg. Here’s another YouTube Link of John Crowder doing it, as he says, “The High Way!” Yep. He looks high all right!
That’s “Life Center” not “New Life Center”. http://www.lcmi.org
Chris – Thank you, bro! “Life,” “New Life,” I can’t keep up with the variations. So, thank you for the correction!
Beyond that moniker snafu, I am shocked at what I see going on in that church. Wow! You can’t say that you didn’t warn me!
wow…thats all I’ve got to say, wow.
amazing stuff shawn…what I don’t understand is how I missed him when he co-located to Ireland! It’s not like we’re that big a country. I’m so disappointed…and I could have done with losing a few pounds too.
Hey Shawn, have you seen my interviews with him this week? My guess is you have. :) If not, go here and scroll to the bottom for a list of most of the recent posts we’ve been tag-teaming.
I’m sorry I never finished commenting on your “Why We’re Not Emergent” thread…I had a busy weekend with someone coming to share at our house church. I’ll get back to that post ASAP!
@Glenn: Yep. I could use one of those weight loss miracles too! LOL!
@Mike: Yeah. I caught your post. I’m a regular reader, bro! I must say though, no amount of explaining or interviewing from this guy would make what I’m looking at in the above video better. It’s straight up ridiculous. It speaks for itself. And sometime you just can’t dress ugly up and make it pretty. That’s bad stuff, plain and simple.
It would probably do us all some good to find out exactly why this is “wrong” (if in fact we find that it is). I’m very interested in the Biblical backing they have for this ministry. The only verse I’ve seen them promote is 2 Cor 2:13 which was taken horribly out of context.
@Justin: You are right. It would be much more edifying to actually look at the Scriptures re: this sort of thing, rather than just discount it and assume everyone else already knows what is wrong with it.
I’d point to the Letters to Corinth, for starters. I think the warnings concerning corporate spiritual practices, order, the edifying value of the utterances – or gibberish – we speak, and chaos are all very relevant in this situation. So, the Corinth letters – in their entirety – would be a good place to start. 1 Cor 14 is a direct shot at this new “revival.” Colossians is another letter that would be very relevant, as that church too was led astray by a brand of mysticism that promoted the roles of angelic beings to a level that should have only been occupied by Christ. The Colossians became fixated on angelic beings, to the dismay of the Apostle Paul. Crowder and the like seem to be chasing and communicating regularly with “angelic beings.” I think we all should be very careful when we bring beings other than Christ into our daily practice. In fact, it should not be done at all! Crowder, in the above video (around 2:25), actually says, right after he talks about the “two fat friar tuck angels that are pulling on his arms and keeping him drunk in the spirit,” the following: “I mean we think we get along … Oh, oh let’s just focus on Jesus, don’t talk about the angels …” He is actually telling us we need to focus on more than just Christ!!! That is the only red flag one needs, though there are plenty more being flown here! Crowder says that we need to focus on angels and not just Jesus. He saying that we need more than Christ. He’s saying we need to NOT just focus on Christ, but angels too! That’s pretty close to the Colossian heresy. So, I think a good read of the Colossian and Corinthian letters will reveal all that’s wrong with what Crowder and the like are up too. He also, around 4:30, totally discards thinking by tossing out “tradition,” “theology,” and “doctrine.” I mean, if all of these things are tossed, by what do you even test this spirit by? And we are called to test the spirits (1 John 4:1-6).
Beyond the Scriptural warnings about practices like this, I can;t help but just to be personally annoyed by his “stage antics.” I honestly have no idea how anyone can sit through that show. Seriously. The noises he makes are straight up annoying. “oi … oi … oi!” Is that what he calls speaking in tongues? What a horrible attempt to pull off a real and otherwise beautiful spiritual gift. This guy is just a charlatan. I’m sure Pentecostals and mature Charismatics want nothing to do with him. He’s just trying to imitate what real Pentecostals and Charismatics actually have. I know many of them, and they aren’t like this at all.
Wow. All I can say is, wow.
I did a quick search for John Crowder and found his website – The New Mystics (http://www.thenewmystics.org/).
Well that explains a whole lot right there.
Hey, Jesse. Yeah, it really is self-explanatory. It never fails, folk like this always have a bunch of stuff for sale that they tote around with them. The early American traveling Bible salesman is alive and well … and their sales pitch has not changed at all.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 11:19 PM, pat holliday wrote:
Hello Dear Ones;
This one’s real Shocker. If I were you, I’d stay away from these demonic meetings and I’d certainly protect the children.You might get an “impartation” of something that’s hard to get rid of. Cover yourself with the blood of Jesus and pray before reading the article.
Yes, I do encourage you to forward these articles. How will they know unless a preacher is sent?
You’ll find new article here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/3482527/Todd-Bentley-John-Crowder-AFTERGLOW-Summer-Solstice-Witchcraft-wizards-
Blessings and do be in prayer from me, family and team. We are all covered by the blood of Jesus and the Fire of the Holy Ghost.
Todd Bentley & John crowder HIGH ON JESUS? Star gate openers and STARWALKERS TO THIRD HEAVENs~ Secrets of the ascended masters ~angels of destruction, TOWER TO HEAVEN, LADDER TO GOD, STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN ~ and cocaine jesus
http://www.patholliday.com/ebooks.php
AFTERGLOW getting high on Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkBLnmdJ2SY
Summer Solstice Witchcraft wizards
~soul snatchers & soul scalpers Bentley and Chowder want disconnect you from the Jesus of the Bible and link you to the Awakened Beings they are calling angels who they say are from the divine realm existing in the Third Heaven. They want to take you through an occultist wormhole, the sorceries, long sought “Stargate of the gods.” Their witchcraft experiences want to teach you about the powerful new “electrical energies” bathing your spirits with the anointing of the Ascended Masters powers of the New Age.
You know, I watch videos of this guy or other folks on the fringes of the Pentecostal / Charismatic movement and find myself torn.
On one hand, I do think God is up to more than we can think or fathom and I want to be open to receive whatever he’s got for me – even if it’s out of my own comfort zone, but at the same time wondering if it’s possible to be open to the fullness of God without being kooky and weird.
And then, for those us as who find ourselves within the Charismatic movement, it’s always frustrating to be linked together with folks like this. I don’t know any more of John Crowder or his ministry and theology than this video and occasional name blurbs, but still, this is ridiculous.
@Will: That’s just it, bro. I too long for deep, deep moves of Spirit. I long for authentic supernatural events and visitations. I also think God is up to way more than we think, or even might be comfortable with, but there has to be content there for us to be edified by, and it’ll not be separated from important aspects of tradition, or doctrine, or a singular focus upon Jesus Christ.
Plus, strange, weird gutturals are not so important.
But I hear you, loud and clear, bro.
Funny thing… People are getting healed, born again, and experiencing God. Not sure that the delivery is as critical as the results – No?
Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD, “Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.
A wise theology professor once told me, “If you base your experience of God upon your experiences alone, then you will be limited to your experience.”
A conversion based upon experience alone, seems to me to be a very thin foundation. Reason should be involved too, or you’ll simply be reduced to a drunk taken with mountaintop wine.
This men is mocking the most High Holy God. It is sad to see Christian people to be deceived by a charlatan.
My question is this-why do you,Shawn,want supernatural events and visitations?I am a christian.I am absolutely horrified at what is being called a work of the Holy Spirit.People in my church are embracing the “anointing”coming out of the Lakeland Revival.Explain to me why Jesus is just not enough?The mantra I keep hearing is “supernatural” experience the “supernatural”.Welcome to the New Age Church Shawn.I am running as fast as I can away from this mess.
We are supernatural already because we belong to God. He made us in his image…isn’t that enough. We are saved through God’s grace once we believed in his son Jesus! Amen! Mariah you are so smart!
Keep running and take a few friends with you.
You people are terribly judgmental. You presume to judge a man and the motive of his intent based upon a video you think you understand. Do you not know that in God’s presence there is fullness of joy, where at times it seems one is completely incapacitated in the Father’s love? John Crowder lives in the the Lord’s presence, and as one who knows him and his family intimately, I’d be careful how you place your hand in the kettle. It may get burned.
While I can certainly appreciate your heart, Malinda (this is Mike, the guy who interviewed him on my blog), your tone sounds kind of threatening – not unlike when Benny Hinn cursed Hank Hanegraaff for speaking against him in the 1990s. We all need to raise the level of discourse here – charismatics, non-charismatics, and cautious charismatics alike. While I agree that Shawn is a bit too quick on the draw here, I think ominously warning about spiritual ‘burning’ has a similar effect. We Spirit-filled types can do better than playing the ‘touch not the Lord’s anointed’ card, methinks.
I hope this took place at night, otherwise the church of tradition might accuse this guy of being drunk before noon.
Cheers though,
@We: Yeah … sometimes the folks are actually drunk before noon. The Acts story you cite is not a license to approve – or join in with – everything “spiritual” that comes down the pike. We are also called to test the spirits …
Hello Melinda,
Well, if you know John Crowder, then you know that what he is teaching and releasing is nothing short of unbiblical and defiled, along with new age at its center. God will never reduce Himself to looking like or acting like the world. It just doesn’t happen. When John uses phrases like “Tokin the ghost” it shows that he has no fear of the Lord or reverance for His holiness.
Besides, you cannot find in Scripture where God gets people drunk in the Holy Ghost. It is not there. Acts does not even mean what people think it means, Peter was talking about different languages and because of the number of them being spoken at once, it sounded like they were drunk, The point is, they were not! Every reference is pointing to being filled with the Holy Spirit in person or upon a person, not a drunken affect.
God does not relate with something He calls debauchery and sin, period!
Oh sure, you can use the scripture to say whatever you want it to say, but the fact of the matter is, in the original context it does not mean to look or act drunk or high. In fact, there is more scripture that says we should remain sober minded than there is in regards to the Spirit of God overwhelming someone like you say.
Yes I was looking up Acts 2. Those believers were speaking of God’s mighty works in languages the hearers could understand, they glorified God. Ever seen a drunk do that? Theres no drunk in the spirit there. Yet it seems people took their lead from the mockers, lots promoted the idea and so we now have had the “heavenly bar-tenders” rolling out the barrels, the drunken glory parties and weird behaviour. If getting the “experience” is all important , we might just as well smoke the glory. Then just throw out the reverance so as to be relevant and what have we got? Mocking. I am glad the believers in Acts 2 glorified God . What a contrast.
. Lets read the bible! Be Very Blessed.
I wonder what a scriptural study of the verse that states that Jesus was anointed with joy above all of His companions might turn up? Just a thought :) That surely would be a lot of joy. I mean I’ve seen football fans, sober ones, display a fair amount of hilarity when their team wins, so Jesus has even more joy that that, and supposedly the angels throw a party when someone comes into the kingdom, and He Who sits in heaven laughs….oh and in His presence is fullness of joy & at His right hand are pleasures evermore and Jesus sits at His right hand. then there’s that business about the joy of the Lord being our strength. Just wonder what God had in mind when He said all these things???? hmmmm. oh yes. then there’s the bit about the foolish things confounding the wise & revealing His truths to little children (or perhaps those with childlike hearts….) perhaps if the body of Yeshua was more about the business of loving as He loves, we’d see this world turned rightside up????? shabba
Exactly Mimi.
Mike, I never intended to play the “touch not the Lord’s anointed card.” Perhaps I reacted too hastily to a verbal crucifixion of a man I know and love dearly. For that, I apologize.
I was, however, alluding to the account of when Jesus was accused of doing His works by the hand of the devil, to which He responded that doing so was the unpardonable sin. There’s a fine line between judgment and discernment, and when we perceive to decipher a man’s motives by what we think we understand about the Holy Spirit, we better be careful what comes out of our mouth. It is not what goes into a man that defiles, but what comes out, for out of the mouth, the heart speaks.
In a world where darkness gets even darker and chaos gets even more chaotic, it is truly the fullness of joy in His presence that will sustain us.
I just saw John Crowder last night. He is an anointed man. The Holy Spirit was running rampant in that place. The Spirit works through people in unconventional and unpredictable ways. In the case of John, coming from a past of drug abuse,it only makes sense that the Spirit would show up in his life and show him true ecstasy that comes only from Him. I walked out of that place with an overwhelming, unspeakable joy. I bless John and his ministry, and he has and will bring thousands of people to Jesus with his love and joy.
Malinda, do not apologize for sticking up for this beloved man of God. How can one of these people basically calling John an instrument of the devil say that your tone is “threatening” because you point out their judgement. This is exactly what infuriated Jesus about the Pharisees. The judgement flowed through them, yet they did not know God. Remember, they called Jesus a blasphemer for being “unconventional” and healing the sick. You cannot put the Holy Spirit in a box and expect Him to conform to that. My God is HUGE!!!!!! I simply trust in my discernment when I attend these kinds of meetings. I am NOT a baby Christian and I can tell the difference between the presence of God and the presence of the demonic. How sad it is that all of you feel that your are justified in your closed-minded judgements of this simple man of God. I ask the Lord for more of His presence. We are meant to experience his presence, from “glory to glory,” and I want it! If the rest of you are satisfied with intellectualism, than how sad for you. I pray that the Holy Spirit knocks you on your feet and shows you the unspeakable joy that John is trying to convey.
@Malinda – it is obvious that you have a great love and respect for Mr. Crowder. However, to try and draw a comparison between him and Christ, the ministry of Christ and the ministry of Crowder, the persecution of Christ and the persecution of Crowder… well, in my opinion that is outright blasphemy and only reinforces the point in my mind for the need for discernment in the body of believers. I’ve seen and heard enough from him and Dunn to know that what they are doing is not glorifying God. It is gratifying their flesh. If you can’t see that, perhaps you are within the envelope of their very present darkness. I apologize if that sounds harsh, but it is true. May God open your eyes to the glory of His Son. In Jesus Name, amen.
In Christ,
Simple Mann
@Malinda – You might do well to educate yourself a little on the history of heresy in the early church. As Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes, “There is nothing new under the sun.”
Here’s a couple of links I think you might benefit from:
http://www.discernment.org/synopsis.htm
http://rollanscensoredissuesblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/false-prophets-powers-of-addiction-and.html
In Christ,
Simple Mann
@Christine – Jesus did not stumble around like he was drunk or possessed by demons. He didn’t make a bunch of unintelligible noise with his mouth. “He taught as one with authority.” He spoke in parables. There were a few recorded instances where individuals were genuinely overjoyed because they had been healed (either physically or spiritually), but our Lord was not hosting “Holy Ghost house parties” and acting like the world. He often offended and perplexed people, such as the Pharisees or the rich, young ruler, but it was not because of the lunacy of His behavior. It was because of the truth He spoke. There is a big difference between Crowder teaching that you just have to “toke the baby Jesus” and Christ teaching someone like Nicodemus that He must be born again.
I do not doubt your sincerity any more than I doubt Mr. Crowder’s. Sincerity does not equal truth, however.
You wrote: “I am NOT a baby Christian and I can tell the difference between the presence of God and the presence of the demonic.”
I would suggest you do a little more study into the Person of the Holy Spirit to see what Scripture actually teaches about Him, for He is not a Spirit of chaos but of order. What you have to say about Him does not line up with Scripture, but is based on your own experience. That should throw a warning flag up.
In Christ,
Simple Mann
@Mimi – You wrote, “then there’s the bit about the foolish things confounding the wise & revealing His truths to little children (or perhaps those with childlike hearts….) perhaps if the body of Yeshua was more about the business of loving as He loves, we’d see this world turned rightside up?????”
Ah, yes, but our Lord did also say, “‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’”
He didn’t command us to remain infantile in our understanding. If you have read the epistles from the Apostles to the pastors and members of the early church, I think you will find that they did not take correct doctrine and teaching lightly. Nor did our Lord.
In Christ,
Simple Mann
To those defending John Crowder’s behaviour: Pharmakeia” is the Greek word that’s translated “witchcraft” or “sorcery” in Gal. 5:20, i.e. one of the “works of the flesh”. It is also the root word for pharmacy which denotes drugs and the useage of them. The bible warns about this increasing (drugs and sorcery) in the end times. The useage of drug use terms such as “toke”, and mannerisms etc. does not bring glory to God but is a sign of the end time warnings of the bible. The Word of God also speaks of some falling away from the faith and giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (I Timothy 4:1). The Word of God also speaks of the elect possibly being deceived (Mark 13:22). Anytime we get away from the Word of God, or testing things with the Word of God, we can get into error. John Crowder may be very sincere, but I am concerned for him having fallen into deception. Please please please read the Word of God (and not a “watered-down” version of it) and ask the Father to show you His Truth and give you a Love of the Truth (2 Thess 2:10). We also need to pray for those men. This is the only post I will make here. IN JESUS GREAT LOVE & MERCY.
Maybe you all should watch how you are judging people. What if you’re wrong, and this man is a man of God? Do you have infallible discernment? I doubt it. Discernment is not only about intellect, but relationship and experience. I study the Bible. I also hear directly from God and rely heavily on my experience of Him. Regardless of who John Crowder is and what he is doing, why do you feel the need to call him out and judge this man that you do not even know? If you need scripture to back up everything, then read Matthew 7.
Plenty of discussion of Crowderisms, Crowderology, and Crowderesy at:
http://johncrowderisaheretic.wordpress.com/
Crowder is one of Christianities most dangerous lunatics. The guy is off his rocker and a prime candidate for the looney bin!
Gary,
Much of what makes him so dangerous is his well-spoken demeanor off screen (for the inquirers) coupled with his wild antics on film (for the true believers)–that makes for one well-reasoned heretic. Sophistry passes for scriptural substance in the Crowderite arena.
When I have a new christian friend on Facebook, and they talk of flying high in Glowray land and shoooka boom bomm and being high on Jesus etc, I understand that they are not nutcases or on LSD but John Crowder disciples!
It’s incredible!…they communicate with each other with garbled rubbish eg. sha ha ha ha boom boom. Many of them try to be in two places at once and like to fly to heaven for a regular visit.
I’m firmly convinced Crowder is even more dangerous than Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Copeland,Duplantis,Hagee,Jakes, Bynum, Paula White,Paul Crouch, Osama Bin Laden, Obama, Sadam Hussein etc.
People that destroy souls are more dangerous than those who destroy bodies.Jesus said “take heed to those who can destroy your soul”.
Shawn where do you find these gems!? Throughout Church history there have been several cases of bi-locational preaching by the Saints!? What the hell Church history has he been studying? I mean…I’ve studied my Church history. George Whitfield may have traveled like a banshee…but he sure as crap was never in two places at once haha!
HAHA! Right on, Andy! I’m sure Whitfield didn’t have two fat friar tuck angels hanging off of his arms either! With some, anything is possible.
What I have to laugh about the most here is the people in the front raising their hands and stuff. They must be REALLY intelligent because I couldn’t follow a single thing this guy was saying.
“Heavy drunken glory. That means POSSESSED by joy. Oi! Oi! Oi!”
I wish I could show up in Ireland.
Oi Oi OI Oi Oi Oi oi oi Oi oi oi oi OIng! =Crowder’s most intelligent communication!
He exactly fulfills Jesus warning about the blind leading the blind and they all fall into a ditch.
1 Corinthians 5:12 tells us we are to judge those in the church. We are also to be like the GOD Bereans who studied day and night to make sure that what Paul was saying was true.
This man needs to be called out for what he is. A showman and taking some of the saints with him in the ridiculous display.
What about the scriptures telling us that everything is to be done decently and in order. Can I get an amen.
What about be sober? (several scriptures)
I a sorry but this nonsense makes me sick
Misbehaviour in churches is often defended with the statement “don’t put God in a box”.
Actually, God IS in a box of perfect righteousness, and the Bible defines what righteousness is.
Some scriptures do this by describing the opposite of righteousness, such as the 10 commandments.
Scripture always asserts drunkenness as unrighteous.
The devil has enticed the gullible and unwary to operate outside the box of Gods righteousness, and John Crowder is a champion of this wickedness.
He does it all in the name of Jesus, but make that a false New Age Kundalini Christ.
John Crowder and associates are probably fornicating (spiritually) with demons, and judgement day may not go well for church people who have been “two timing” with demonic entertainments.
The antics sometimes look hilarious, but the consequence for John and his followers will either be their repentance, or the eternal LOF (Lake of Fire – Hell).
The fear of the Lord seems completely absent from John Crowder’s speech and action.
Scripture does not associate the true Holy Spirit with people being controlled to manifest like the mentally deranged.
I would like to address the often misunderstood subject of “divine consolations.” The early apostles, saints and Christians throughout history enjoyed the ecstasies and manifestations of God’s presence, which today we often call by many names: spiritual drunkenness, being slain in the spirit, getting whacked, etc. The biblical word for this experience is “extasis” or “trance” and is found throughout the New Testament, as well as the Old. In history, these manifestations had many names in many great revivals and awakenings: enthusiasms, fits, jerks, exercises, etc. The Christian mystics of the church called these experiences “consolations.”
Some of the mystics cautioned against pursuing manifestations inordinately, as they felt it distracted us from God. But this was not always the best theology, to separate these out as gifts from the Gift Giver. Christ is both the Gift and the Giver. He is the Minister of the New Wine and the Wine itself. The most famous mystics did not really practice what they preached, because they spent far more time in ecstasy than the average believer today. Some went into continual ecstasies for five, eight, thirty, even thirty five years straight. Although they were in extreme rest and contemplation (“soaking” or “practicing God’s Presence”), they still saw thousands of conversions and countless miracles because of their peacable, trusting, restful enjoyment of God.
Do not feel guilty about enjoying the pleasures of God. There is no law against such things. Christ is both the Gift and the Giver. He is both the Drink and the Minister of the Drink. Religion will let you enjoy Him — but not too much! Religion wants you to have a moderate, “lukewarm” desire. Never to extreme. Surely not fanatical. It is linear and Greco-Platonistic to separate Love from the feeling of love. We pursue ecstasies only in that they are a state of divine love to be eagerly desired. True contemplation is much deeper than verbal forms of prayer or worship. It is aboutintimacy, which is the foundation of revelation and all other gifts.
When we speak of activating a state of trance, or pursuing rapture, we cannot consider it a formula in the Western, Greek rationalism sense. This is a deeper way. The mind alone cannot traverse these paths, nor is it sufficient to tread where the heart has not first ascended. We do not humanistically climb into a trance state the way a sorcerer or drug addict would do, through their own deviant means. Our entrance is simple: we believe that Christ has already opened the Heavens on the cross! When I believe that I am already in Heaven – seated with Christ (Eph. 2:6), then I also believe that I am also seated in the wine room. I am already in the treasure room of Heaven. I may not feel it. My circumstances may not show this to be true. But when I choose to believe the good news, then my feelings and my circumstances begin to line up with the truth. To the extent we really believe, we can continually experience the ecstasy of His presence and a continual lifestyle of supernatural manifestation. There is never a need to tone it down or pull back. We are resting in His finished work.
Belief and love are heart issues. Religion wants to catch you up in outer forms, but God wants you to be continually consoled in your heart by His love.
The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men” (Is. 29:13). What systematic approaches are powerless to accomplish, yet the blazing lamp of divine love achieves effortlessly, for “the eyes of the Lord range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him” (2 Chron. 16:9).
There is no theological explanation. No form. No methodology to the practice of His presence. Its reliance is on the blind fury of faith – it hinges on abiding. It is a relationship.
“This is what the sovereign Lord, the Holy One of Israel, says: ‘In returning and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength. …” (Is. 30:15)
As my inner man learns to be still and know that he is God (Ps. 46:10), I learn His still small voice. I find that I am already in the Secret Place, not because of my prayers, meditations or righteous actions, but because Christ was able to accomplish what I was powerless to perform.
The Lord will fight for you; you need only to be still. (Ex 14:14)
Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. … There remains, then, a rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest. (Heb. 4:1)
Stillness not only enables us to better hear the voice of the Lord. Rest is one of the most productive weapons in spiritual warfare. When the mystics of the church entered into deep rest, the phenomena that came over them – which today we call being “drunk in the Spirit” – was given a theological term called “ligature.”
Ligature is ceasing of inward abilities. As ligature sets in, you may not be able to think, read or even speak coherently. You are overmastered and overcome by His love.
Many Christians are trumpeting the urgency of the hour and the demands of more activity to turn the demonic tide in this fallen world. Surely there is an urgency to save souls and be salt and light in our society. But the job is ultimately not ours to accomplished. Jesus finished the work on the cross. He overcame the devil. His work was not just “one step” toward finishing the process. The problem is that most Christians don’t fully believe the gospel. They believe their circumstances. When you stand on the truth that the work is finished, that belief begins to manifest in your life, ministry and all around you. Our work is simply to “believe on the one He sent” (John 6). The God of peace will soon crush satan underneath your feet.
Spiritual warfare is fundamental Christianity. You have an enemy that hates you intensely and is relentlessly looking for ways to take you out. But it is in the eye of the storm, in that place of perfect peace and stillness, where it cannot affect you. Jesus slept through a storm. We must learn to practice our peace and throw our anxieties onto the Lord. Anxiety is not a virtue. When the enemy begins to assault us, the first thing we must learn to do is run to the secret place. Go to the place of worship. We are not called to run from battle. But we must learn to stand in the presence of the Lord.
Holy Spirit is not intimidated by chaos. In fact, He thrives on it. That’s the place of His greatest creativity. He hovered over the chaotic face of the deep and created a masterpiece.
Worship and warfare go hand in hand. David was a man after God’s own heart. He was one of the greatest warriors that ever lived, but he was also one of the greatest worshippers. A warring lover. If you become a true worshipper, you will become a true warrior. You will route foreign armies and overturn wicked thrones and dominion. How? Love. Faith. Rest. Trust.
Coming to a place of peace is critical to maintaining our position in God. You don’t have to wring your hands and wonder if you’ll ever become prophetic, move into your destiny or push the enemy out of your affairs. If you simply believe the word and dwell in the Secret Place with God, you will naturally see all these things come to pass. All it takes is falling in love with Him.
Ah! Would this be a comment from John Crowder himself? If so, hello, John. Welcome.
I would agree that we are in the midst of a conflict between God’s good and Evil’s evil, but I’m not at all sure what that has to do with your display in the above video. How does what you are doing in that video help anything? Seriously.
Thanks for the comment.
I like the guy. Granted, he’s wierd and looks foolish. However, I’ve listened to a couple of his sermons and the Lord’s presence entered the room in spite of my frustration with him. I read his book “The New Mystics” and found my heart longing for more of the Lord. I cannot speak for his interactions with others. I only say that, in my life, I’ve been edified through him.
I think it wise to call into question antics that seem ‘idiotic’ or ‘foolish’ but I would leave the character assaults at home. We judge based on the fruit of the tree not on how weird or foreign the branches might look to us. I don’t agree with everything the man says but at least he is pursuing the kingdom in the best he knows how and he’s seeing some measure of breakthrough.
The apostle Paul wasn’t joking when he said the Kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.
John Crowder’s Doctrines of Demons
=============================
The doctrine statements from John (January 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM) is a good example of “New Age” (occult) religion supported by scriptural perversion and fantasy. See http://www.newchristian.org.uk/kundalini.html
>> Holy Spirit is not intimidated by chaos. In fact, He thrives on it. That’s the place of His greatest creativity. He hovered over the chaotic face of the deep
This appears to be a perverting of Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
John Crowder has inserted the word “chaotic” into the beginning verses of the Bible, which shows the method to create a “doctrine of demons”.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to DECEIVING SPIRITS and DOCTRINES OF DEMONS
Chaos relates to destruction, drunkenness, foolishness, vandalism, demon possession, terrorism, etc., all manifestations of Satan’s methods, the direct opposite of creativity, wisdom, and order.
When John Crowder and like minded people build doctrines by HACKING up pieces of scripture, it shows they are DOCTRINAL PERVERTS promoting “doctrines of demons”.
>> Christ is both the Gift and the Giver. He is the Minister of the New Wine and the Wine itself
>> the phenomena that came over them – which today we call being “drunk in the Spirit” – was given a theological term called “ligature.”
John Crowder associates Jesus Christ with INTOXICATION from guzzling wine. This is another “doctrine of demons”.
Since scripture ALWAYS asserts DRUNKENNESS as UNRIGHTEOUS, then all drunken manifestations which are claimed to be from God are actually a MOCKERY of scripture, a mockery of Jesus Christ, and a mockery of the Holy Spirit.
Prov 21:17 He who LOVES PLEASURE will become poor; whoever LOVES WINE and oil will never be rich.
1 Thessalonians 5:6-8 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and BE SOBER. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day BE SOBER, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
Since John Crowder and those in agreement with him are being affected by REAL SPIRITUAL POWERS, and since their manifestations contradict REPEATING SCRIPTURAL COUNSEL against drunkenness and loss of self control, then the spiritual power must be from Satan and his minions called “familiar spirits”.
These are the spirit guides of New Age religion, the occult, and Roman Catholicism (eg. Mariology).
Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have FAMILIAR SPIRITS, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
>> As ligature sets in, you may not be able to think, read or even speak coherently. You are overmastered and overcome by His love.
Being overcome by deceiving spirits is a perverted love from “the God of this age” (Devil – 2Cor 4:4), not God the creator (Gen 1:1).
Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.
>> If you simply believe the word and dwell in the Secret Place with God, you will naturally see all these things come to pass. All it takes is falling in love with Him.
John Crowder and those who follow his perverted ways have FALLEN IN LOVE WITH A COUNTERFEIT “angel of light”, “the God of this age”, and may have the same destiny:
2 Cor 11:14-15 Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
Rev 20:10 And the devil, who DECEIVED THEM, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Playing around with counterfeit “angels of light” might be BLISS and ECSTASY now, but it will lead to REJECTION by the Most High God FOREVER.
The “big party” will occur in heaven AFTER WE DIE, not now (see Rev 19:9).
Scripture asserts we now have SERIOUS WORK to do while remaining firmly SOBER.
2 Tim 4:3-5 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, KEEP YOUR HEAD in all situations, endure hardship, DO THE WORK of an evangelist, discharge ALL THE DUTIES of your ministry.
People who turn up DRUNK at work GET FIRED.
People who GET DRUNK with “familiar spirits” from Lucifer will GET FIRED into the lake of fire, if they don’t REPENT prior.
John Crowder’s “HEAVY, WEIGHTY, drunken glory” may be a premonition of the WEIGHT OF A MILLSTONE:
Luke 17:1-2 Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a MILLSTONE TIED AROUND HIS NECK than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.
John Crowder’s mocking ministry is not to the unsaved, as they would be repulsed by his bizarre acts, easily assuming he must have escaped from a mental asylum.
John’s ministry is to cause CORRUPTION OF EXISTING CHRISTIANS by encouraging them to mock God with improper revelry, and form relationships with Satan’s minions, “familiar spirits”, and so reclaim Christians for the Devil.
1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Matthew 24:10-13 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and MANY FALSE PROPHETS will appear and DECEIVE MANY PEOPLE. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM to the end will be saved.
Getting DRUNK and FALLING DOWN is the opposite of STANDING FIRM.
The “slain in the spirit” (falling down) phenomena is not from God the creator.
The only exception is falling down after being killed by God for wrongdoing (eg. Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-11). Slain means being killed.
Instead of teaching people to fear the Lord, John Crowder is teaching them to treat God as an object to be indulged, like a prostitute for sex lust and drunken dissipation.
It is deception and blasphemy to associate these immoralities with “the joy of the Lord” mentioned in the Bible.
Rom 13:12-14 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us CAST OFF the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us WALK PROPERLY, as in the day, NOT IN REVELRY AND DRUNKENNESS, NOT IN LEWDNESS AND LUST, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
Manifestations from “familiar spirits” might feel good, but IMMORAL ACTIVITIES always do FEEL GOOD, such as drunkenness, drug taking, and fornication.
Following John Crowder’s ways is spiritual immorality.
The only response to this situation is either accepting the certainty of DAMNATION to Hell, OR REPENTING while there is still opportunity.
Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the VILE, the murderers, the SEXUALLY IMMORAL, those who PRACTICE MAGIC ARTS, the IDOLATERS and all LIARS–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Proverbs 14:12, 16:25 There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death
Psalm 111:10-112:1 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.
Praise the LORD. Blessed is the man who fears the LORD, who finds great delight in his commands.
billcnz SPOT ON!
Great comment and very well laid out. The first time I saw this I didn’t know what to say and John’s answer is unacceptable.
Good Job
even the term “New Mystics” which is used by Crowder to describe himself and similar charlatans should have big red lights flashing and 50 ton bells ringing for sound stable christians.
“By their fruits you shall know them”…when you read the baloney and drivel and lunatical gibberish of his followers who claim to be high on Jesus or ‘huffing the Bible’ you will understand that Crowder is a nut case.
I believe as of this time he is the most dangerous person operating in Christian circles-a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Definitely nuttier than a fruit cake.John before you post again please go and see a shrink or better still get deliverance from the many evil spirits that inspire you.
FYI: The above comment by John is actually from John Crowder himself. I just wanted to clarify that point.
And while I may seriously – seriously – disagree with your (John) theology and expression I still respect you and love you as a brother and I will sit/chat/pray with you, anytime.
Shawn, it is not a case of faulty theology…John is absolutely deceived and spreads his deception and new age theories throughout the body of Christ -like a cancer.
Yes it is good to pray for him.The most effective prayer is for deliverance for him.
John you said “As ligature sets in, you may not be able to think, read or even speak coherently. You are overmastered and overcome by His love.”
I agree with the part not being able to think coherently.When I see Crowder he is definitely a mental case and not able to think properly or even able to put an intelligent sentence together.eg Oi oi oi oi oing oing oi oi oi oing oing oi!
Also you mention blasphemous things like “getting whacked” as though God is just some kind of drug that you can get high on.
Martin Luther and the word of God tells me the just shall live by faith.Hebrews 11, the epistles and Foxes Book of MMartyrs teaches me clearly that these ALL lived oand died by faith…not by some ecstacy trip!
I agree, Gary. I just felt as though we should show as much compassion for the person as we do concern for his expression (which I agree is seriously off).
John said: “As ligature sets in, you may not be able to think, read or even speak coherently. You are overmastered and overcome by His love.”
This is really no different than the aim of Buddhist meditation, or the experience of what they call Samadhi. Before Christ arrested me and opened my eyes to His glory, I studied mysticism, eastern religions, and the occult for years on a rather absurd “truth quest”. I decided I would search for truth *everywhere* but in the Bible, and in Jesus Christ. I was a rebellious, God-hating student of darkness, despising Christians and their faith, but glory and praise be to God that He opened my eyes, and that He gave me life. I certainly didn’t “earn” or deserve my salvation, nor did I “choose” my Savior. Rather, He chose me, and I am ever so thankful that He did.
Having come out of that experience, I suppose I am somewhat more sensitive to the doctrines of demons and deceptions of darkness than someone who has never tread those dark roads. There is so much of that in what John wrote. His philosophy and perspective, and therefore his *teaching*–and this is the what makes him so dangerous, because he *is* a teacher–is so much more akin to Taoism, Tantra, and Transcendental Meditation than it is to real “traditional” Christianity, and he most definitely *is* deceiving people into believing God loves them even as His anger burns against them.
John Crowder’s philosophy seems to embrace and elevate the love of the world and the lusts thereof. It is a sad irony that this man was named after the apostle who wrote: “Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.” (John 2:15-17)
And I would also point out that it was this same apostle, the one from who Crowder get his first name, who wrote: “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life–the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us–that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete. (1 John 1:1-4)
“which we have heard”, “the word of life”, “testify to it and proclaim to you”, “which we have seen and heard we proclaim to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us”, “we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete”
All of these phrases come from just the *first* sentence in John’s first epistle. And what of John’s gospel? It begins:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.” (John 1:1-5)
John says that Jesus was “THE WORD”. Not some incomprehensible, chaotic thought that transcends speech and understanding. No! He was THE WORD MADE FLESH. And how did Jesus teach to His disciples? He gave sermons. He spoke in parables. He quoted scripture. He prayed! Jesus was not some transcendent idea that existed beyond form and expression in some “ligaturgic ecstatic” state of non-being (or however John Crowder tries to make sense of things). He was flesh and blood, and the Bible *speaks* of Him, revealing who He is, who God the Father is, who the Holy Spirit is–and who WE are–on every page. This revelation comes by the Word and the Word has been given to us by God.
The biggest problem I see with John Crowder is not, as some have said, that he is crazy. I think he is far from crazy. I think he is far worse. I think he is very intelligent, but very deceived. And very convinced that he is not. And that is much, much more dangerous than crazy.
Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ. (Ephesians 5:15-21)
simple you are right.John Crowder may be intelligent and more deceived than crazy.
I was thinking of him as a nut case more in the terms of his terminology and approach to Jesus, eg. “huffing the bible” and getting “whacked”. All his followers talk nonsense like…”shobba, baa ba,oi, oi, oing,etc. They talk the Crowder gibberish which makes them appear crazy.
John Crowder is assassinating his own character through being a WILLING PARTICIPATOR in immoral spiritual acts and false teaching.
He should just repent.
We will need to be careful that the critique of John Crowder isn’t made PERSONALLY INSULTING, and therefore an opportunity for his INFLUENCE to INCREASE through sympathy of SUPPOSED PERSECUTION.
Eg. an appeal with 2 Tim 3:12 …everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
>> Crowder is a nut case (GARY February 7, 2009 at 11:34 PM)
The nutty behaviour could be Satan’s ploy to:
1. PROVOKE the wrong kind of response from Christians who are offended by it (eg. rudeness, coarse language).
2. Insult God and encourage others to do the same, potentially leading to eternal damnation.
3. Destroy the witness of Christians to unbelievers. The unbelievers will be repulsed by the manifestations which are IDENTICAL TO MENTAL ILLNESS (vibrating, twitching, slurred speech, gibberish speech and sound effects, animal acts – dogs, chickens, lions, etc., staggering about, falling over, uncontrollable/irrational laughter, etc.).
All Christians SHOULD BE OFFENDED by the improper manifestations, however many have been conditioned for years in churches to accept ANYTHING unusual and supernatural done “in the name of Jesus”.
They are overlooking the reality of FALSE CHRISTS, that the Bible warns about.
Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Caution: Any IMPROPER TEACHING about WHO Jesus Christ is, or what he wants us to do CREATES a false Christ for people to follow.
The Roman Catholic church promotes a false Christ who is still on the cross (through display of crosses with a body on), who changes back into flesh when you eat their communion wafer (false transubstantiation teaching), and who is unapproachable so that you have to send appeals to his mother Mary, other dead people (“Saints”) or confessionals with clergy-mediators.
Jehovah Witness, Mormons, New Age and many other religions follow false Christs. John Crowder is following and promoting a false Christ through his false teachings.
In these times many Christians have ALSO been CONDITIONED not to be critical of anything, not to be negative against anything, or not to judge anything. A false doctrine of UNIVERSAL POSITIVISM is promoted.
They should realise that universal positivism leads to universal wickedness. A lot of scripture is negative, intolerant, exclusive and judgemental, which is protection from wickedness, eg. the 10 commandments.
The floodgates are open for mass deception in churches.
Internet blogs and email are a useful tool to promote mass awareness against this.
John Crowder has simply become a portal for “familiar spirits”, they are causing the manifestations and guiding the teachings that are CUNNING PERVERSIONS of scripture.
“Familiar Spirits” – see http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=familiar&version1=9&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no
These spirits may eventually destroy John Crowder (as per what happened to Todd Bentley), then operate through someone else with even worse manifestations and sensational supernatural displays.
2 Thes 2:9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of COUNTERFEIT MIRACLES, SIGNS AND WONDERS,
There is a REAL MALEVOLENT SPIRITUAL POWER behind this, and it is EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL in attracting participants in churches, as did the Toronto “Blessing”, Todd Bentley, etc.
It is less about John Crowder, and more about CUNNING SPIRITUAL DECEPTION.
1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Satan has worked out ways to approach and entice Christians to BECOME PORTALS for “familiar spirits”, it seems by offering PLEASURABLE sensations and visions, as well as an appeal to PRIDE (eg. the ELITISM of having spiritual power and experiences).
Our vulnerability is being exploited.
God’s counsel through scripture is the SAFEGUARD AGAINST VULNERABILITY.
Jesus Christ USED THE BIBLE to refute the Devil: “It is WRITTEN………..” http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matt%204:3-11;&version=31;
2 Tim 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good WORK.
There is GOOD WORK to be done.
John Crowder is arguing against scripture and teaching “don’t bother, let’s just get drunk”.
“Get whacked, stay whacked, and never look back”.
This is hard core false teaching.
billy wrote:-These spirits may eventually destroy John Crowder (as per what happened to Todd Bentley), then operate through someone else with even worse manifestations and sensational supernatural displays.
On the Charisma forum for many months I was one of the 2-3 most vehement exposers of Bentley’s deceptions.
Billy’s angle on false Christ’s is pertinent and spot on re Crowder.
What if the manifestations won’t stop?
What if John Crowder decides he would like a REST from the mental illness manifesting?
In mocking the Holy Spirit, John Crowder could lose his PROTECTION with the risk of IRREVERSIBLY being overtaken by evil powers.
John repeatedly asserts that the drunken glory is “HEAVY AND WEIGHTY”, which could become a TIRESOME BURDEN.
Isaiah 24:7 The new wine dries up and the vine withers; all the merrymakers GROAN.
If he stops co-operating with the “familiar spirits” they might retaliate by inciting HEAVY DUTY DEPRESSION (even suicidal), and inciting PHYSICAL LUSTS (eg. for power/sex/money).
These considerations should cause FEAR in the heart of anyone who has allowed themselves to receive any impartation that produces ANY unbiblical manifestation, such as Toronto “Blessing”, as they have received something from Satan’s minions, “familiar spirits”.
The FEAR should drive them to URGENT repentance.
Isaiah 55:6-7 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
Psalm 33:8 Let all the earth FEAR the LORD; let all the people of the world revere him.
Psalm 33:18 …. the eyes of the LORD are on those who FEAR HIM, on those whose hope is in his unfailing love.
More scripture on “Fear of the Lord” http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=fear%20of%20the%20lord&version1=31&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no
The fruit of Todd Bentley’s ministry is adultery, lying, loving money, false teaching, and false prophecy.
I know of 2 Christian people some years ago who deliberately pursued improper spiritual things like Toronto “Blessing” and subsequently committed suicide. One from car exhaust poisoning, the other hanging by rope (after first going into an adulterous relationship).
Scripture also states God handing people over to STRONG DELUSIONS because they DO NOT LOVE THE TRUTH.
2 Thes 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they REFUSED TO LOVE THE TRUTH and so be saved. For this reason GOD SENDS THEM A POWERFUL DELUSION so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Spiritual drunkenness is probably ADDICTIVE like physical drunkenness, but worse as it comes from evil SPIRITUAL POWERS rather than chemicals in a bottle.
John Crowder has prophesied over himself “Get whacked, stay whacked, and never look back”.
Is this reversible, or is he on a road of NO RETURN?
It is better to emphasise REPENTANCE rather than speculate whether a person is IRREVERSIBLY condemned, but scripture warns about things that lead to CONDEMNATION. Scripture recommends AVOIDING CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP with people who are involved in improper things. Better to be safe than sorry because eternity is a long time.
1 Corinthians 15:33-34 DO NOT BE DECEIVED: “Evil company corrupts good habits.” AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.
DON’T be deceived by John Crowder’s false teaching and bad example.
DON’T get drunk. Awake to righteousness.
Whilst there is an assurance: Romans 8:1 There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
There WILL be condemnation for those who follow a FALSE CHRIST and walk according to “familiar spirits” (Satan’s minions).
Hebrews 6:4-6 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace
It is DEADLY SERIOUS and URGENT for Christians to REPENT of ANY involvement in improper spiritual experiences.
We should stay firmly SOBER, and just get peace and joy from reading and obeying the Bible.
It is God’s word.
Running off to “secret places” to get ticklings and new teachings from angelic beings is improper.
Good scriptures Billy…spot on.
keep up the good work of exposing this charlatan.
Todd Bentley is a classic example of deception and “fooling around” with demonic “angelic visitations” and ectsatic experiences in the “heavens”.”The wages of sin is death” and eventually for satan and his demons and those who dabble with them their pay day arrives sooner or later.
John’s pay day unfortunately is on the horizon.
John, if you read this forum, please repent while there is time. “What does it profit a man if he gain the whole world and loses his soul”.
To see John rejoicing over the “Pee Pee” miracle go to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JJtoMzNyIA&feature=realted
You will see him and Dunn praying for an old man in Indonesia to “pee his pants”. (There is much rejoicing over the “miracle”).
Also google John Crowder in Indonesia and watch some of the deceptive lunacy and you will just shake your head in bewilderment that so many christians are deceived by this stuff.
I know nothing about John Crowder, but his use of the term ‘chaotic’ in this instance is not invention.
“the earth was without form”
This can be translated, “the earth was established in chaos”, or “the earth became a place of chaos”.
Our choices in translation are generally made by doctrine, rather than translation leading the way to doctrine. Some translations read, “if you hear my words”, while others choose to say, “if you listen to my words”, switching the onus from speaker to the one being spoken to.
Bill,
From what you have written, you are obviously a guy who has completely judged a book by its cover from watching a couple of YouTube clips. Have you read any of his books? Been to any of his meetings? Contacted him before publicly blasting him on the world wide web? Probably none of you have. I’m sure John can take care of any specs in his own eye without your well-intentioned, loving help. I’m sorry to say, but Crowder has way more scriptural ammunition on you than this silly, irrelevant diatribe. Not to mention the solid ministry and character fruit to back it up. Say what you want, but I’ve seen this guy and he preaches the gospel. Enough said. I would learn to hold my tongue and not drop the gavel on someone I don’t know, never met and whose theology I never thoroughly investigated.
If I didn’t REST from the mental illness of accusing the brethren, I might lose my PROTECTION with the risk of IRREVERSIBLY being overtaken by evil powers.
I tell you what, even if you put Crowder and these other revivalists in the ground, you’re not going to stop what God is doing today. In the NEW TESTAMENT, the new wine of His Spirit never runs dry
by the way, i seriously doubt Crowder made the post below. Looks like an old article someone copy and pasted from his website, that doesn’t have much to do with your inquisition. I’m sure none of you ever even contacted him directly with your questions before skewering him.
You are welcoming John to his own crucifixion? How honorable!
Dude, you obviously don’t get the difference between being drunk on worldly things and being drunk on the new wine of the Spirit. How do explain Song of Solomon 5:1 which literally says to “be drunk” on the love of God? Why is Jesus’ own blood represented by wine, for crying out loud? This is a transcending, divine love. That’s all these guys are talking about. It’s a love that does something to you.
Sounds like the same old unbelieving, cessationist garbage and ramblings about deception, from someone who may be a bit fearful and insecure about their own spirituality, so they spend time criticizing others.
You guys show your complete lack of knowledge of church history and theological terminology here. Don’t you know that “mystic” is a word that started in the church and belonged to the church for centuries, before some wiccan kids started trying to play around with it and steal it? If satanists started using the word “grace” or “salvation” would you stop using it?
Mystics are just prophetic type people. I’ve seen lots of Bible translations that even use the word mystic.
I think if any of you guys had the courage to read Crowder’s books, or any by Bill Johnson or Rick Joyner, you might be a little ashamed at some of the things you’re saying here
You guys are just making accusations, then rambling on those strange tangents for paragraphs. All this tantric, new age mumbo jumbo are just counterfeits for true Christian meditation/contemplation, also called the “Practice of the Presence of God.” If you have a hard time with the practice of God’s presence, it may be good to go back to the Alpha course.
I think Crowder is recovering a lot of good, solid spiritual ground that we’ve handed over to the psychics and the new agers. We shoot down a brother who is trying to recover “true” spirituality, then wonder why the world is going to hell in a handbasket?
Hi Shawn, sounds like you were just born again yesterday.Maybe in twenty to thirty years or perhaps in your case fifty years time YOU will have your senses exercised to discern between good and evil.
Even apart from sound spiritual discernment it doesn’t take a lot of grey matter exercise to realise that Crowder is somewhat ‘nutty’.In Australia there are thousands of people in mental hospitals who appear more normal to the general public than Crowder. If I was an Australian government pyschiatrist I would insist that he is detained at Her Majesty’s (the Crown) request in a padded cell.Obviusly he is deceived and acting when he does his drunken glory drama.One only needs to listen to Crowderites speeling off Crowderesy to realise how occultic and new age these fruit cakes are!
These guys obviously “put on’ their act of ‘drunken glory’ etc. They are so false it ain’t funny.They portray a super spiritual image of them receiving a special revelation and “outpouring from God’…and of course the Crowderites copy this superficial, artificial, super spiritual deception.
I am dumbfounded to think that there are naive, blind and deceived sheeple who are dumb enough to follow all this nonsense.I guess sheep are dumb after all!
>> You guys are just making accusations
No, just PASSING THROUGH the WARNINGS FROM SCRIPTURE against improper practices and false teaching.
Scripture commends Christians to speak out against falsehood, especially within the Christian fellowships:
Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and EXAMINED THE SCRIPTURES every day TO SEE IF WHAT PAUL SAID WAS TRUE.
Teachings and practices that fail the test against scripture are being refuted, whoever they come from, in this blog thread it is John Crowder.
The community is being warned.
People will decide for themselves which side they will take, because God has given people free will.
>> true Christian meditation/contemplation
In the context of John Crowder type teachings and practices, that is the practice of going to “secret places” to get ticklings and teachings from “angels of light”.
Since God wanted you to INSTEAD read and follow what is written in the Bible, then Satan will turn up to encourage your disobedience.
YOU WILL be tickled, and YOU WILL be taught, and unless repentance occurs, YOU WILL spend eternity with the deceiver.
Crowder witchcraft participators will increasingly be UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND scripture directly, because their minds are disabled with spiritual drunkenness. On the above video John Crowder states “I used to be a teacher”. That’s because he pursues “get whacked, stay whacked, never look back”.
Let’s change that to “got whacked, repented, never went back (to the vomit – Prov 26:11)”.
>> “Practice of the Presence of God.”
No matter what ATTRACTIVE LABELS AND PHRASES John and others come up with, they SHOULD BE REJECTED as it is JUST A COVER FOR MOCKERY of the Holy Spirit.
Arguments to show WHY it is a mockery have already been given, and SHOULD CONTINUE as contributors become aware of them.
>> it may be good to go back to the Alpha course
No, YOU should go back to THE BIBLE, which is THE STANDARD for all doctrine and practice.
Careful investigation of the teachings in the Alpha course has proven it to be a system to convert EXISTING CHRISTIANS towards New Age (occult) religion, fill them up with Toronto “Blessing” witchcraft (manifestations from Satan’s minions), and ecumenical unity towards Roman Catholicism.
See http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/AlphaBrochure.pdf
http://users.skynet.be/fa390968/AlphaSleepnet.pdf
http://www.christiandoctrine.net/news/alpha_news/alpha_feb_2003_web.htm
http://newsletters.cephasministry.com/alpha_fatal_attraction.html
>> I think Crowder is recovering a lot of good, solid……..
Recovering ANCHIENT HERESIES.
>> then wonder why the world is going to hell in a handbasket?
It’s happening because the Bible PREDICTED IT WOULD, one of the causes being occult practices and teaching (eg. what is coming from John Crowder) DISPLACING the true gospel and sound, SOBER witness in Christian fellowships.
2 Thes 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they REFUSED TO LOVE THE TRUTH and so be saved. For this reason GOD SENDS THEM A POWERFUL DELUSION so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Shawn Harper, I can understand your indignation if you FEEL there is good from John Crowder’s experiential manifestations and teachings. But in the end they are just TICKLINGS OF THE FLESH, and completely lacking THE FEAR OF THE LORD.
Then there is all his false teaching through SCRIPTURE HACKING, which promotes Satan’s ways more than God’s ways.
It is less about John Crowder, and more about CUNNING SPIRITUAL DECEPTION. However John has put his name against it, so his name will be referred in the critiques.
John Crowder will FALL OVER IN DISGRACE soon enough (as did a similar manifester and false teacher Todd Bentley). When he does someone else will carry on his mantle of wickedness, and they should be critiqued as well.
The critiques of John Crowder’s teaching and practices MUST CONTINUE so that people can be BETTER INFORMED to decide which side they will take.
For some the decision will affect their ETERNAL DESTINATION, either heaven or hell.
Mystics and church history.
=======================
>> your complete lack of knowledge of church history and theological terminology here
Could be. So what?
The Bible is the standard for all matters of teaching and doctrine, not church history, theological terminology, or the traditions of men.
2 Tim 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Mark 7:8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the TRADITIONS OF MEN.”
>> Mystics are just prophetic type people.
Mystics deal in MYSTERY (forbidden occult stuff that goes BEYOND SCRIPTURE).
Prophets deal in PROPHECY, there are 2 types: True prophets and false prophets.
Shawn Harper, you have mixed terminology to support deception.
>> I’ve seen lots of Bible translations that even use the word mystic.
That is probably one of the unreliable translations that should be avoided.
>> I think if any of you guys had the courage to read Crowder’s books
When there is proven false teaching and practices coming from someone (eg. John Crowder), then that is a SERIOUSLY GOOD REASON not to read ANY of his books.
Burn them.
Jesus warned against the YEAST (teaching) of the Pharisees (Matt 16:6-12)
Once you discern a source of BAD YEAST, don’t partake ANY MORE of it.
It should always be a PRIORITY to read the Bible BEFORE reading any other books, as otherwise how will you be able to discern between true and false teaching?
>> Rick Joyner
Rick Joyner has consistently been identified as a false prophet, thorough proofs are posted all over the internet – eg. google “rick joyner false prophet”.
SHAWN MAY I POLITELY SUGGEST THAT YOU READ MATHEW 24 SEVERAL TIMES! Mathew was one of the disciples of Jesus and the book is the first book in the New Testament.If you buy a bible look at the index and you will see the Bible is divided into 2 parts-Old and New Testaments.If you then go to the ‘New Testament’ part in the index and look at the first book the index will show the page number.Then thumb through the book to about the beginning of the last third and your page will be there somewhere. Each book is divided into chapters and you will find Chapter 24 directly after chapter 23.(Starting at the beginning of the book just thumb through past chapters 1-23. In Chapter 24 Jesus repeats several times “Take heed that no-one deceives you”.If you don’t understand this please ask your Sunday school teacher and he or she will explain to you what deception means. “Take heed” means “be warned” and many of us here are warning you of Crowder’s deception. Think and pray about this seriously because your eternal destiny is at stake. On Judgement day, if you are lost with other Crowderites, you cannot say that no-one warned you.
Drunkenness of any kind is bad.
>> Dude, you obviously don’t get the difference between being drunk on worldly things and being drunk on the new wine of the Spirit
One comes from chemicals in a bottle, the other from evil spirits.
THEY BOTH interfere with function of the mind and body in an ADVERSE way (vibrating, twitching, slurred speech, gibberish speech and sound effects, animal acts – dogs, chickens, lions, etc., staggering about, falling over, uncontrollable/irrational laughter).
THEY BOTH give pleasurable sensations, which is why people are attracted to them, as per enticement for immorality.
The Bible REPEATEDLY CONDEMNS drunkenness and REPEATEDLY AFFIRMS soberness and a SOUND MIND.
Spiritual drunkenness is worse because it is spiritual fornication with the devil.
>> How do explain Song of Solomon 5:1
SOS 5:1 I have come into my garden, my sister, my bride; I have gathered my myrrh with my spice. I have eaten my honeycomb and my honey; I have drunk my wine and my milk. Eat, O friends, and drink; drink your fill, O lovers.
This mentions the drinking of wine and milk.
“Drink your fill” should be interpreted IN THE CONTEXT of THE REST OF THE BIBLE which warns SELF CONTROL against GLUTTONY and DRUNKENNESS.
Shawn Harper, you are HACKING SCRIPTURE to assert that verse affirms drunkenness.
Individual verses must ALWAYS be interpreted in the context of the ENTIRETY OF SCRIPTURE.
>> This is a transcending, divine love. That’s all these guys are talking about. It’s a love that does something to you.
Nice poetry, but the love you are describing is nothing more than FLESH LUST like someone who commits immorality with a prostitute, and enjoys it so much they GO BACK FOR MORE.
Shawn you are trying to promote indulgence of God as a prostitute.
Repent.
>> Sounds like the same old unbelieving, cessationist garbage
No it’s not. Readers can decide.
>> from someone who may be a bit fearful and insecure about their own spirituality
No, just an appreciation of the FEAR of the Lord and a good appreciation of the WHOLE COUNSEL of scripture.
In a very secure place of CONTENTMENT.
VERY CONCERNED and HIGHLY OFFENDED by improper spiritual ministries, as I know the harm they do.
I am compelled to SPEAK OUT with what I know.
It is evidence of being an authentic Christian, as the alternative attitude is ignorance, complacency, lukewarmness, laziness, cowardliness, etc.
Cowards and the lukewarm go to the lake of fire (Rev 21:8, Rev 3:16), so the critiques of false church ministries MUST CONTINUE because they stop other people from getting to heaven.
The critiques are less about John Crowder, and more about CUNNING SPIRITUAL DECEPTION. However John has put his name against them, so his name will be referred in the critiques.
John Crowder’s teachings and manifestations are posted all over the internet.
Blogs everywhere SHOULD be debating it, in contending for the truth (affirming truth, rejecting falsehood, using scripture as the standard).
Read THE BOOK (Bible), not just the cover and everyone else’s books.
>> you are obviously a guy who has completely judged a book by its cover
No, I have read THE BOOK (Bible) FROM COVER TO COVER many times over the years, and in comparing, various John Crowder teachings and practices are wrong, so are being refuted.
It is less about John Crowder, and more about CUNNING SPIRITUAL DECEPTION. However John has put his name against it, so his name will be referred in the critiques.
>> Crowder has way more scriptural ammunition on you than this silly, irrelevant diatribe.
If you think so, then you will follow his teachings and practices. I wouldn’t.
John Crowder teaches doctrine from HACKED up pieces of scripture.
At the moment John may be able to confine his manifestations to church fellowships and places/times of choosing. However if they become completely uncontrollable, eg. occur in public places, in aeroplanes, in public schools, community meetings, police stations, then the civil authorities will FORCE HIM to live in a MENTAL ASYLUM.
Mental asylums are full of MANIFESTING John the Baptists, Elijah’s, messiah’s, etc.
Shawn Harper, this is DEADLY SERIOUS. The time will run out for mocking the Holy Spirit.
>> If I didn’t REST from the mental illness of accusing the brethren…..
The critiquing is being done from a SOBER mind (not the mental illness of a Crowder drunken stupor), and scriptures are being given to support the critiques.
Sometimes THE BRETHREN stray off the path. John Crowder has repeatedly been warned to REPENT before it is too late.
John Crowder’s mental illness manifesting is BAD FRUIT already.
Shawn Harper YOU are ACCUSING your brethren of doing wrong, when they have DONE RIGHT to critique falsehood.
>> you’re not going to stop what God is doing today
If you are linking John Crowder’s teaching and practices to “what God is doing today”, then that is not the God of Genesis 1:1.
It is THE GOD OF THIS AGE (Lucifer) who has blinded the minds of unbelievers….. (2 Cor 4:4)
It seems he has blinded the minds of some BELIEVERS as well.
This is tooooo Creepy….
sorry, but your brand of “emergent” christianity is just as pretentious. lemme guess, shane claiborne changed your life, as well as a host of flaky, djembe-pounding, dreadlocked, closeted homosexual pastor mentors on the verge of another “separation”. and you’ve got a curriculum vitae to boot! predictable and sorely lacking in anything new to add to the 2 millennium old brotherly-bashing convo the Mel Gibson Church is adept at.
Thou shalt not litter inboxes with tacit spam guised in support letters for a measly missions vacay and flee as soon as you’ve accumulated more than enough money in your PayPal account to gratify your secret evilangelistic fetish because you’ve exhausted your bullshit diatribe of a subliminal sales pitch you self-righteous prick.
i can’t wait till the muslim majority kicks some major christian ass.
=)
“He who is spiritual understands all things.” 1 Cor 2:15
It is clear that these types are coming about in these days and only those who are in the Spirit will be able to discern that which is of the Spirit. Those who are not in the Spirit can not discern the things of the Spirit. I have seen several videos of John and read his justification for his behavior and I do not consider his behavior to be godly.
I am so nervous for my friend after reading this, and watching that video, what the crazy? She left one completly off kilter church, for this ministry.
I appericate the fact that so many churches are trying to push more about how God is a loving God. To not feel you are above others who are in a tough situation, but to offer help to them. I needed that reminder, and learned it well a few years ago. I learned just how much like the pharasies I looked like. I was basically looking down my nose the homeless, and prostitues who were just out side our church door. (not a proud moment) I said something snide like “can’t believe they are right outside the church, so weird this being a holy place and all” (I deserved a slap in the face), my friend said “I am glad we are here to offer them his love, and guidance”. I needed that comment. It was out of love, correction which I needed. It made me uncomefortable, but it really made me see things in a new perspective.
For those of you who are upset by the “judement” that others are saying on here I don’t think there is anything wrong about speaking truth, if it is done in love, and care for wanting others to be on the right track. His track.
As long as people are different there will always be different perspectives of what is the “right” way to be a christian.
Not all of His love is the huggy, squish kind of hippie dippy love that makes us feel comefortable, like big fluffy downy pillows, or squishy teddy bears, you get the point. I am sure Jesus did not feel comefortable most of his ministries. More people are acting VERY P.C. Especially if you live in California. God wants us to offer love of course, but not so much that we look like the world.
do you all believe that what Jesus said in the gospels applies in the present-tense i.e. for today in the here and now ,relevant?
@keith: Sure, but what does that have to do with the above display brought to us by John Crowder? I think one would be seriously hard pressed to link Crowder’s display with the things Jesus actually said in the Gospels.
A couple of questions.
1) What is the basis for our evaluation of whether or not this or anything else is from the Lord. Is it the reported miracles, the stories of angels and other supernatural phenomena, the way we feel, ect. Or is it a careful examination of what they are teaching in the light of the Scriptures.
This is where the evaluation needs to be. Is their teaching and lifestyle in accordance with the Bible. If it is not then they are not from God. Full stop Period, end of argument.
What about the miracles, signs and wonders. Good question for the Bible does state that these will follow the preaching of the gospel. (Mark 16-19) and else where. Here is the thing the signs and wonders are meant to confirm and back up the preaching of the Gospel not be the yardstick for acceptance or not of a particular person or ministry.
The Bible makes it very clear that it is the Word of God (the Bible) itself that is the only thing that is to be used to evaluate whether something is from God or not. See Deuteronomy 13 and Galatians 1:6-8 for what the Lord says to do with those who do miracles, signs or wonders and whose teaching is not in accordance with the Word of God.
We need to assess the life style and content of any ministers preaching and teaching by the Word of God and let it set the standard for what is acceptable or not.
Do I believe God can and does do the miraculous. Absolutely. I could tell you stories of a few that I have seen or heard about that I know are true. The point is it is not the miracles, signs or wonders that are the authenticating mark of any preacher or ministry but whether their teaching and lifestyle are in line with the Scriptures.
This guy “performed” at a church I “was” a member of. This guy is just plain is way off base. The “pastor” of the church had explained to me that he was using his tactics to draw in those that were bound by satan in drug abuse. I don’t buy it and Crowder is a very big part of our( my wife and I) decision to leave the church. Do you buy it either. When you see him coming run don’t walk the other way. He’ll suck your younger people right in.
I don’t seek God’s miraculous sign and wonders. But I get them anyway. I’ve had diamonds appear in my house and have layed hands on the sick and done hundreds of instant healing miracles. I get annoyed when people overly focus on gifting and “supernatural” stuff. I’d rather just focus on Jesus, and the gospel and let Him take care of the supernatural stuff. But each person is at their own level of maturity and it’s stupid to judge one another. Love is the better way. I find it harder to love people who are annoying me than I do to do a miracle in Jesus Name. You need the Holy Spirit for both but, LOVE is the higher way. Sometimes when I am talking to God in my car I burst into laughter and get a huge rush of joy. But it’s usually when I think about how great God is and how much grace and love He has for my and others. Pinching you thumb and finger together to ‘toke’ the Holy Ghost while novel is really pretty shallow in my view. That’s why I don’t do it. But each to their own. We will all stand before the King one day and give an account of what we did in the body. God Bless you all.
Fat friar tuck angels pulling at your leg? Weight loss miracles? Miracles, miracles, miracles? Yes, I believe in the supernatural, however I have ministered alongside some of what is mascarading as truth and it is the furthest thing away from it. False signs and wonders drawing people to a quick fix, when Jesus says He is our portion and His grace is enough, “fat friar tuck angels” c’mon people, where is the fruit we are to look for? The character, image and integrity of the One we are to be made in the image of? The Lord says this will come and we are to rightly discern. We are to be a righteous judge of what goes on in the house of the Lord and call it what it is. Alot of this is a temporary distraction of entertainment to get our eyes off of what they are to be upon. We can believe in the supernatural, miracles and angels, but we are to be led by Jesus alone and if we do that and keep Him as center, we will know the false when it is right before our eyes.
>> But each person is at their own level of maturity and it’s stupid to judge one another. Love is the better way.
It can be very loving to give a biblically based judgement warning to someone, as it could lead to their repentance to save them from eternal disaster (eg. all the critiques on this blog thread warning John Crowder and associates against their blasphemy and mockery of God).
Since John Crowder is promoting his methods publicly, then he and all the people who follow and condone him should be warned publicly.
>> I’ve had diamonds appear in my house
God wouldn’t give manifestations in a context that “provides for the flesh” as that would contradict his warning:
Rom 13:14 make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil its lusts.
The diamonds were an imagination delusion or were a manifestation of the devil, as they only serve to inflame the love of money, mammon, and pride. Gold dust appearing is a similar deception.
These are most likely the counterfeit signs and wonders the Bible warns the Devil will produce to lead people his way:
2 Thes 2:9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders
Feathers appearing to people could mean they are developing “bird brains” and may be tempted to jump off high places, thinking they will soar like eagles.
They will just fall.
>> LOVE is the higher way
Truth comes before love, because love first needs a true, Biblical definition for it to be valid.
John Crowder’s rhetoric promotes “worldly” definitions of love, the various lusts of the flesh (eg. self entertainment from imagination delusions, drugs, drunkenness and fornication).
God is in a “box”. You should be too.
============================
>> Will 21 June 2008 “I do think God is up to more than we can think or fathom and I want to be open to receive whatever he’s got for me – even if it’s out of my own comfort zone”
>> Christine 23 Sept 2008 “You cannot put the Holy Spirit in a box and expect Him to conform to that. My God is HUGE!!!!!!”
>> “The Spirit works through people in unconventional and unpredictable ways”
What about the conventions of moral conduct specified in the Bible?
People are saying:
“don’t put God in a box”
“don’t be legalistic and religious”
“go beyond your comfort zone”
“God wants to do more than we can think or fathom”
….as attempts to defend the practices of people like John Crowder, Ben Dunn, Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, Toronto “Blessing” type manifestations, etc.
Well, actually God has limited himself inside a “box”.
It is a box called perfect truth and righteousness.
Staying within truth is a limitation that people choose to follow, in being faithful to the God of Genesis 1:1.
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
God’s word the Bible is a “box” he wants us to limit ourselves by.
If you don’t keep reading the Bible, then you could stray off the path (go “outside the box”) due to other influences.
That is why we should be very careful to know Bible counsel and follow it diligently:
Lev 18:4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God.
These laws include moral laws that apply through both the old and new covenant eras.
The New Testament warns of moral laws that if violated will lead to damnation, eg.
1 Cor 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (NKJV)
The definition of sin is violation of Gods laws:
1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
The New Testament warns of the devil as being “lawless”, which is like operating “outside the box”:
2 Thes 2:8-9 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders.
In New Zealand there is an energy drink called “Demon” ( http://www.demonenergy.co.nz ) and its motto is “No Limits, No Laws”.
That promotes living “outside the box” of moral limitations.
2 John 1:9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
“Running ahead” is another example of operating “outside the box” of Biblical teaching.
Do you love truth, or do you love delusions and fantasy?
2 Thes 2:11-12 …… God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Not loving the truth leads to delusions, and fantasy, or “going outside the box”.
In churches it is popular to encourage people to “follow their dreams”.
This could be nothing more than encouraging people to follow delusions and fantasy, as well as coveting for mammon and “worldly success”.
“Worldy” entertainment is mostly about pleasure from delusions, such as indulgence with drugs and alcohol, computerised virtual reality, movies and television.
Being a disciple of the true Jesus Christ (not the false Christ of people like John Crowder) includes intellectual decisions to limit yourself within God’s counsel, and therefore to “stay within the box”, when others may be wandering far and wide.
Prov 17:24 A discerning man keeps wisdom in view, but a fool’s eyes wander to the ends of the earth.
All forms of sexual immorality are “outside the box” of God’s created design: faithfulness inside marriage between a man and woman.
John Crowder is a promoter of pleasure and bliss, which are delusions of the flesh from going “outside the box” of repeating Biblical counsel.
He has gone beyond the constraints of truth, the limitations specified or implied in the Bible.
Implied limitations are things the Bible doesn’t specifically mention, but you may be tempted to do.
For example, wanting the Holy Spirit to give you “tickles of bliss” to make you feel better, if you are having a bad day or are feeling bored.
John Crowder and others practicing like him are operating in the same realm as the devil, who also operates ”outside the box” of truth.
They are operating in the realm of lies, blasphemy, and lawlessness:
John 8:44 …… the devil… He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John Crowder and like are dangerous company to keep, or to even defend, because it shows you either don’t know the truth, or don’t care about the truth, which indirectly means you don’t love the true Jesus Christ who has truth written against his name:
John 14:6 “I am the way and the truth and the life.”
Keep away from false ministers like John Crowder, Ben Dunn, Todd Bentley and Benny Hinn because they are promoting false Christs through their false teaching and false ministry:
1 Cor 15:33-34 Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God–I say this to your shame.
Prov 23:23 Buy the truth and do not sell it; get wisdom, discipline and understanding.
Running around in a spiritual manifesting stupor like the drugged/drunken/mentally ill (eg. all of John Crowder’s antics) is the opposite of Biblical counsel, and therefore blasphemy to state it is caused by the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 24:5-7 The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left. The new wine dries up and the vine withers; all the merrymakers groan.
Take heed John Crowder, and all who participate in his ways.
John Crowder’s carnival of mockery and blasphemy against God is intending to set up a spirit channelling and manifestation zone in Tauranga, New Zealand February 2010 – see Link: Papamoa infection zone
You often need to refresh the page in your web browser to see all of it, as it jams frequently, maybe because it is created with chaos software (Crowder = chaos).
If you watch the video advertisement statement given by John Crowder, it presents like an invitation from the Devil to gain special abilities in the paranormal.
It could be a “fun” party trick to see through walls, levitate, and foresee the future, but demonic possession may be the downside.
Check this prophesy coming from the NZ organisers Link: Voodoo Prophecy
There are two aspects in that statement that sum up the spirit behind everything John Crowder:
1. “I then saw me taking Bibles and other forms of symbolism and burying them …..”
2. “I then saw the cross of Jesus go into the land like a stake…… I then saw blood come up from the crack…”
Burying the Bible and chasing after bleeding crosses sums up John Crowder type madness.
Stakes, crosses and blood in the context of John Crowder antics, goes with vampirism (Satanic perversions).
It is possible that soon after the New Zealand event there will be occurrences of Crowder vampires taken into custody for annoying the neighbours by howling at the moon, scratching at the doors, and hunting for blood.
Crowder associate Benjamin Dunn has apparently got a disclaimer medical certificate for plane travel, to accommodate a “religious condition” that produces random manifestations.
I wonder how long before people have “bad trips” (definitely not “bliss”) on aeroplanes because a religious freak imparted “joy” to the pilots so that they flew up, down, and everywhere except to the scheduled destination.
This is more serious than funny.
John Crowder and Ben Dunn are channelling spirits that do affect others in the vicinity.
Make sure you never travel on a plane they are on.
It is probably safest to never go anywhere they go, to avoid the risk of being drawn towards their most likely eternal destiny:
Revelation 21:8 “But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (NKJV)
As to the most profound question on the list… at the very top
Shane
“I’ve never heard of this guy before. Is he drunk?”
I think Peter answered this question for you in Acts 2:13-17…
“…these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is {only} the third hour of the day; but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: ‘AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,’ God says, ‘THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND…”
I guess the mockers of Acts 2 asked the same question of the Apostles…
Something to ponder…
Dear All -
As a sincerely questioning soul I stumbled on this site and was so turned off by the volley of insults at one man (who I am not even familiar with yet). You do yourself a disservice by resorting to childish insults because whereas I got on the site looking for the truth about this man I’m now getting off much more willing to listen to what he has to say being that he was practically the only post demonstrating a calm, respectful tone. It’s such a shame, because I think there is so much wisdom found on this page from contributers that could help people like me, but it’s buried so deep under an avalanche of personal insults that I couldn’t even finish reading to find out. I got on this site because I was skeptical of John Crowder and the Mystic Movement, but comparing his response to that of his opposers, I was immediately drawn to him as he was the only one that explained his views without any personal attacks or insults peppered in. It seems each Christian on this site is truly and lovingly worried about deception in the body of Christ, so can I please encourage you to remember to wrap the truth in love (respect) and not resort to name-calling so that your defense of the Body of Christ is credible? Because I can tell you, you have practically driven a neutral seeker straight to the arms of his message simply because he showed more respect and restraint in sharing it.
Love,
Lisa
Manifestations of “Babylon”
>> Lisa 9/1/10 “he was practically the only post demonstrating a calm, respectful tone”
Lisa, you are confusing nastiness with strong indignation.
The people who have written critiques against John Crowder are expressing strong indignation, and so they should.
All Christians should hate the ministry of John Crowder because they love God and hate him being mocked and blasphemed, which is what John Crowder is doing.
The Bible does not endorse a righteous version of drunkenness, just as there is no righteous version of stealing, adultery or lying.
On the Day of Pentecost Christian disciples preached the gospel in various languages which impressed listeners who comprehended the message in their own language (Acts 2:1-47).
However, mockers accused the disciples of being drunk for speaking authentic languages the disciples normally didn’t know.
The false accusation of mockers should not be used to justify spiritual or physical drunkenness.
John Crowder is like one of those mockers, giving a false testimony about the work of the Holy Spirit.
Joshua 24:14 “Now fear the lord and serve him with all faithfulness. throw away the gods your forefathers worshiped beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD.
John Crowder type ministry invites people to go back to the gods of worldly indulgence, a spiritual simulation of “sex, drugs, and rock ‘n roll” where “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” (2 Peter 2:12-22)
That passage associates a number of manifestations with “Babylon”, a Biblical metaphor for the kingdom of Satan:
- roaring and growling like lions (animal acts)
- drunkenness (mind altered and loss of body control, staggering, jerking, falling, garbled speech, improper acts, etc.)
- laughter
These are the Toronto “Blessing” type manifestations and blasphemy that John Crowder is involved in.
There is no “slain in the spirit” as a healing or blessing from God.
Instead, all the madness ends in being slain by God for participating in Satan’s “Babylon”:
See Revelation 18:4-24
Instead of fearing God, John Crowder is mocking him, and encouraging others to join in.
Instead of fleeing “Babylon”, John Crowder is making his home there, and encouraging people to join him.
guys, as the Body of Christ let’s not tear each other down and berate each other. let us pray for wisdom, discernment and clarity that only He can provide. instead of turning on ourselves (we’re all part of the same body), let’s focus on loving God, loving people and telling the lost about the incredible sacrifice of Jesus. don’t fall into the snare of the enemy.
much love.
I just started reading his book. He isn’t uneducated. He’s actually very bright. The book is an examination of early revivalists and modern ones. He is clearly searching for a humble path. I think he really doesn’t care what anyone thinks of him!
seeker 3
you need to redirect that energy
http://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Workers-Reformers-New-Mystics/dp/0768423503
he may not be your cup of tea..but I don’t think after writing compassionately about the fall of people like you describe him to be(!) he is likely to be as clueless as you are making him to be.
It is true you become what you fill your eye with (remember this) he actually focuses on what is true and lovely about many who have fallen for such that many of you are accusing him of.. It doesn’t crack up. I don’t think you actually know how to just let the spirit b. I wonder what knuckle head posted this video, because they are really the ones who sort of go into a prayer closet and scream or something. He speaks of many a night the organizers and people are frustrated because when you move in the spirit, the spirit is careful to protect you not to take the glory..so obviously john’s spirit won’t be weighted down by any of you:)
Erm – having read lots of your comments, I think you should really reserve judgement until you have met the man himself.
@seeker 3k – I did start to read your post but stopped after reading the word ‘hate’. Don’t you think that Satan is sitting laughing as you direct this at another christian, leaving him free to divide other communities?
@ billcnz – untill you have met him how can you argue so vehemently against another christian?
@ christine – how true – how can you all sit in judgement having NEVER met him?
Sorry but that is not how we should operate. But hey, carry on – and i will carry on being happy in what I know, and asking the questions!
Oh and when you can say hand on heart you have met him and discussed your concerns with him – then and only then am I prepared to listen to what you have to say.
HAVE PITTY ON CROWDER HIS BRAIN IS FUCKED FROM DRUGS. DREAMS,OYE YOY OYE,DRUNKEN GLORY,WACKED,MINI FAT FRIR TUCKS ETC.ETC.
THIS IS HIS FUCKED UP WORLD.
~ This is plain old witchcraft.